Exclusive Salt-N-Pepa Interview

December 16th, 2009 | By Big Dom

Words by Dominic Di Francesco.

Never let an opportunity pass you by. It is one of those oft-heard adages with which we are all familiar, but perhaps don’t practice with unerring dedication. After all, who has the time to pursue every opportunity that presents itself throughout life? That said, it might be considered fate that Cheryl James and Sandra Denton became the pioneering Hip-Hoppers we know as Salt-N-Pepa. Then again, had they not accepted an invitation to assist a friend with his school music assignment [which would become their first hit single "The Showstoppers"], perhaps Cheryl and Sandi might have never made us push it or talk about sex.

Whether by fate or by chance, there is no denying these two sassy Brooklynites [along with late addition Deidra "Spinderella" Roper] bum-rushed the world in the ’80s and ’90s with their brash, femme-centric rhymes. They forced us to discuss intimate relations with “Let’s Talk About Sex” and turned-the-tables on male/female relations with their blatant objectification of men on “Shoop”.

Salt-N-Pepa’s brashness earned them bragging rights as the first female Hip-Hop act to score a Grammy Award and the first to reach both Gold and Platinum sales success. To this day, the trio remains the highest-selling female rap act of all time.

However, their unchallenged legacy came at a price; in-fighting, bulimia, depression - the stress of the limelight had taken its toll and Salt walked away from the group at the turn-of-the-century. Seemingly idle since their last album [Brand New] hits shelves in 1997, it would be a decade before signs of a Salt-N-Pepa reunion began to blossom.

Now back in the studio together and heading to Australia in 2010 as part of the Good Vibrations Festival, Cheryl ‘Salt’ James sat down with Rhyme & Reason to discuss the group’s chance beginnings, their break-up, subsequent reunion, and upcoming visit to our sunny shores.

How did yourself and Pepa first cross paths?
We met our first year of college. Neither one of us were going to class. We would hang out in the lunch room and play spades together – which I don’t recommend if you want to get an education [laughing]. But we got lucky and ended up forming a group. We also worked at Sears part-time after school and - very interesting - Kid ’N Play worked there, Salt-N-Pepa worked there, and Martin Lawrence worked there.

Was any work done with all that untapped creative energy in one building?
Not at all! Absolutely not. We were telephone solicitors. We sold maintenance agreements on Sears appliances and we would pretend we were speaking to customers, but Pep and I were always talking to each other on the phone. She made me laugh a lot because she’s outrageous and we just really got along. Herby [Azor], our producer, was doing a music [course] at a music school and he had us demo a song for him, which turned out to be our first single “The Showstopper”, which was the answer to Doug E. Fresh and Slick Rick’s “The Show” – a huge Hip-Hop record at the time. They began to play it on the radio, we started doing shows, we quit school, we made an album, and the rest is history.

At the time of recording “The Showstopper”, given that it was only intended as a school project, did you ever anticipate that it might lead to something bigger?
You know what’s really weird? Pep would say no, but for some reason I always knew that this was going to be huge and I believed and held on to that throughout. It’s just amazing that when you really believe something, how much energy that gives you to keep moving forward no matter what. We went through very difficult times where most people would’ve given up, but I just always kind of knew.

Amongst those difficult times was the break-up of Salt-N-Pepa. What led to that parting of ways?
When you’re a recording artist, especially when you’ve been doing it as long as we have – I was eighteen when I started – your life doesn’t really belong to you and you become more like a product. It’s always about performing and doing what you’re told, making that money, and it became really chaotic. I felt like I didn’t really have control over my life. It was also the pressure of being thin and being beautiful and being current. When you’re on top, everybody loves you. When you’re down, people are not feeling you.

So I was on a rollercoaster of highs and lows and I also became bulimic trying to keep my weight in shape, which really wasn’t about weight. If you know anything about eating disorders, it’s about your life spiralling out of control and you’re trying to have some control over it. It just kept getting worse and worse and I wasn’t able to get a handle on it, so I felt like I had to step away from the chaos in order to figure it all out and to heal. So I left the group and everything that I was doing and, through my faith and getting into a quiet environment and surrounding myself with supportive people, I was able to get better and overcome everything that I was going through – the bulimia, the depression, the whole nine.

Eventually, I began to reach out gain to Pep, ‘cause I knew that the way that I left was really hard for her. The more I realised that, the more I realised I had to go back and heal that situation as well. So we got back together and we actually did a show about it here in the States [The Salt-N-Pepa Show on VH1] which was very therapeutic for both of us. And now we’re back out on the road doing shows, doing a lot of things together. We’re doing a radio show here in New York that we’ll be starting in January, amongst other things. That’s the long and the short of it [laughing].

After years apart, how has the chemistry changed between the two of you?
Well, the chemistry between us now is definitely more mature. When you’re young you don’t really have good problem solving skills, you have communication issues. Now that we’re more mature and we’ve been through some things, we’ve learned how to communicate better. We still have our issues and we still go at it some times, but we’ve learned how to look at things from each other’s perspectives and find a happy medium.

Hip-Hop has certainly evolved since Salt-N-Pepa last released an album. It seems to have abandoned it’s traditional Soul/Funk/Jazz roots for a sound influenced more by electronica. How will your new material fit in with Hip-Hop’s current direction?
The new material is definitely current and there is that element of electronic music in it, but it’s familiar at the same time, warm and fun. It’s pretty much what you’re used to from Salt-N-Pepa. It’s dance music and some issue-oriented songs, as we’ve always done in the past. I think people will enjoy it.

And when can we expect this new offering from Salt-N-Pepa?
Well, we don’t have a release date, but hopefully in 2010 if everything goes accordingly.

One of your biggest hits was “Let’s Talk About Sex”. It was perhaps the most blunt Pop record of its time - and it was at a time when the world was considerably less liberal than it is today. Did you have any reservations about releasing such a confronting song?
Actually, no. I understood everybody’s reaction to it and I just felt like, if you reacted that way then you didn’t really listen to the song, because the song was about being responsible if you’re sexually active - and communication, which is a positive thing. When people would say something, I would say, “Did you listen to the song? Did you really listen to the lyrics or are you just listening to the chorus?” No regrets at all!

Nowadays, you can’t switch on the radio without hearing someone singing about sex, although the message isn’t always as positive. Do you feel mainstream music, and Hip-Hop in particular, has become over-sexualised?
I think that it’s gone to an extreme. As a mum who has a daughter, it’s even more misogynistic than before and I think that it is definitely insulting to women in a lot of ways and the images are damaging. I would just like to see more balance in Hip-Hop, with things that are going on in the streets with gun and gang violence and the way that it’s [portrayed] so strong in Hip-Hop. To me – and a lot of people , because they say we’re not responsible for raising peoples’ kids, so on and so forth – I think we have to admit that the music has an influence on the young people and I would like to see more balance.

When Salt-N-Pepa first debuted, there were a handful of female MCs holding down Hip-Hop. Fast-forward twenty years and there are even fewer female rappers making any sort of impact in Hip-Hop. Why do you think that is?
People ask me that question all the time and I really don’t know. It’s weird that no one has really done it the way that we have since we have. I think there are probably a lot of great female artists out there. But if I had to say something about it, it would just be that there’s a lack of originality. A lot of women grow up in man camps and end up doing what is expected of them, which isn’t necessarily always what relates to the public. I feel that with Salt-N-Pepa, people always just really related to us [as] around-the-way girls who liked to have fun, that weren’t afraid to be feminine, that didn’t feel like we had to be hardcore or prove ourselves in any way. It was just a real element about us that people liked that… The short answer is - I don’t know [laughing].

Are you excited to be touring with your old mates Naughty By Nature on the Good Vibrations Festival?
I didn’t even know they were on the show! Really? That’s so funny. I never got the line-up. Cool. Yeah, it’s always good to see those guys. I’m not sure how excited Pep will be about seeing Treach, but… [Ed's Note: Pepa married Treach of Naughty By Nature in 1999, with the couple divorcing in 2001. Pepa made allegations of physical abuse within their relationship in her autobiography 'Let's Talk About Pep', which Treach denies.]

It might be a bit awkward…
[Laughing] Yeah! But we did a show with him recently in New Jersey and we brought them on the stage and it was cool. They were cool.

With a +20-year career peppered with so many milestones, which achievement do you look on as a personal favourite?
Wow. You know what’s been dawning on me really lately? People say this a lot; “You guys were the first female [rappers] to go platinum.” We really broke down some huge barriers when it comes to women in Hip-Hop. And we were the first ones to do it and that’s what keeps us relevant. I think it’s just amazing that we’re in history books; people have Hip-Hop music classes and we’re like a chapter in [text] books. That’s going to last forever and that’s kind of mind boggling. That and winning a Grammy was pretty incredible.

What can audiences expect when Salt-N-Pepa hit the stage throughout the Good Vibrations Festival?
We like to have fun. Before we go on stage we pray and the last thing we say to each other is have fun, because if we have fun, they have fun. It’s very interactive and nostalgic and just very upbeat and exciting. And we’ll be doing all the hits!

Don’t let this opportunity pass you by. Salt-N-Pepa will be touring Australia in 2010 as part of the Good Vibrations Festival: www.gvf.com.au