May 20th, 2010 | By Big Dom
At the risk of sounding pompously philosophical; if you can’t learn to enjoy the journey, you’ll most certainly be disappointed upon reaching your destination. Just ask Justice & Kaos. After years of paying dues, this Melbourne Hip-Hop duo have neither released a debut album nor are they living off the fruits of their musical labor. Nevertheless, the road leading to those career signposts has proven far more remarkable than reaching them might ever prove.
It’s a journey which has seen Justice crowned Scribble Jam Champion , collectively earn an ARIA nomination, release EPs on independent and major labels, score a Best New Artist gong at the Urban Music Awards, and have their documentary Fresh Off the Boat win Best Short Documentary at the 2009 Chicago International Movies & Music Festival.
Now, with the release of their latest EP Theme Music, Justice & Kaos are celebrating that journey and preparing themselves [as well as us listeners] for that elusive next step - the release of their debut album. Rhyme & Reason caught up with the pair to discuss the Theme Music to their epiphanous travels throughout the Australian Hip-Hop industry.
Your previous EP was released through Warner Music, but you’re back on the independent grind for this latest project – Theme Music. What did you take away from your major label sojourn?
Kaos: Warner’s distribution was wide - they were able to put our music in places we could never have reached otherwise. Having said that, you still obviously have to create that demand through the music in order to maximise the benefit of that reach. On the other side of the coin, you’re dealing with a large corporation that deals with the same shit that any corporation deals with. The whole process of releasing Turn It On was frustrating in parts because it took a good while for Warner to commit to the release due to constant reshuffling within the business. The A&R who was responsible for bringing us on board was soon moved on and our project was in limbo for a while. When it did finally come out, we felt that Warner could have given it a stronger push, but we refrained from falling into the ‘point-the-finger-at-the-label’ trap and realised we needed to just make stronger music. Overall, it was a three-way relationship between us, Solid State and Warner and the more lines and levels of communication you have the more difficult it is to get things done.
Your new EP comes on the back of severing ties not only with Warner, but with your long time recording home - Solid State Recordings. What prompted this parting of ways with Solid State?
Justice: We parted with Solid State on good terms and we’re still really close with all of those guys. In the end it came down to a few things, but the two main reasons were lack of resources to push our projects the way they and we wanted to, and also we both seemed to be going in two different directions. They helped and taught us a lot so we’re extremely grateful for all the time they invested in us.
The two of you have been working together - both as a duo and as parts of larger collectives - for a number of years now. How has your creative relationship with each other changed and evolved in that time?
Kaos: I feel like we’ve got a better understanding of each other in terms of style and how to bounce/feed off each other (no homo). When we began working together, we had very similar influences and would rap in a similar way. Since then we’ve developed a lot more individually and now aim to complement each other on a track rather than ‘1-up’ each other as battle rappers tend to do. Production-wise, I’ve naturally developed a stronger sound as a producer and because I don’t shop a lot of beats I’ve been able to pass everything on to J and let him pick out whatever he feels. Our studio sessions have evolved to now talking about and trying to pick out harmonies as opposed to just working out the best way to deliver a rap.
What inspired the Theme Music title for this project?
Justice: The songs featured on this release are a collection of tracks that we wanted people to hear, but didn’t feel like they fit the “sound” we were aiming for on our debut LP. So we mashed them together on Theme Music and ended up with 6 very different sounding songs with each one evoking a different feel and vibe - hence the title.
Kaos: The song “Theme Music” was actually done some time before the idea of this release came about, but we felt the title fit the release really well. It gives the mix of songs some cohesion.
Justice, you’re renowned for your witty punch lines, while you both established your comedic chops on the F.O.B. Mixtape. However, Theme Music seems decidedly more introspective and serious than those previous efforts. Why so?
Justice: Most people that have heard the verses I’ve been writing over the last two years would tell you I’m much more comfortable writing introspective and personal verses rather than a battle verse. For this particular release it was never a conscience decision to be more introspective - I’ll usually write about whatever I’m feeling at that particular point in time, or whatever the beat inspires me to jot down.
The track “Testify” highlights the compromises and struggles involved in pursuing a career in Hip-Hop. Even as ARIA nominated artists, making a living off Hip-Hop in Australia is a difficult ask. What are the major hurdles [and sacrifices] you guys have faced in pursuing Hip-Hop as a career?
Justice: We both work full-time, so it’s trying to find that middle ground between working to fund your passion while leaving yourself enough time to actually execute - that has been the hardest thing so far.
Kaos: We’ve found our sound has been a bit too commercial sounding for the Triple J crowd and what gets generally classified as ‘Aussie Hip-Hop’, but then a bit hard or ‘underground’ for want of a better term for the mainstream audience. It’s actually really stupid and just sounds plain primitive – its like if you have singing on a track or any kind of synthesized instruments, it’s frowned upon by the ‘purists’. In the local Hip-Hop scene it’s starting to change especially with dudes like M-Phazes (who is setting the tone for a lot of local stuff) who don’t buy into that way of thinking. The local Hip-Hop scene has really developed a strong following and scene in the last few years which is awesome, but we’re fully aware that our music sits on the outskirts of that and so carving our own niche has been the focus. In terms of sacrifice, this music shit takes up a lot of time, which obviously takes away from the rest of your life so you end up slowing down in other areas of life in order to accelerate here.
There is a line in “Testify” that goes; “I feel like I should apologise to dad / ‘cause my life ain’t turned out like what he might’ve planned.” How do your respective parents feel about your chosen career path at this point in time?
Justice: I’ve got an Asian father - so he’d much rather I be settled down with a good job and a tonne of money [laughs]. He’s slowly warmed to the idea of me making music, but I don’t think he’d be that fussed if I took up an accounting job or decided to go back and study medicine.
Kaos: My folks are real supportive of me pursuing my passion, my dad tried to forge a career in professional tennis for a few years in his 20’s, so he gets it. Both me and J work full-time jobs anyway so there’s that degree of stability that eases their minds as immigrant parents a little. Plus they’ve been on TV because of it, so they’re stoked!
Another line from “Testify” goes as follows; “I testify, yeah, we could’ve done better…” Given the sacrifices you both have made in pursuing music, do you have any regrets?
Kaos: The only thing I regret is not going to see J win at Scribble Jam. Other than that, no regrets. That line more refers to the feeling you get as an artist that your new material is better than your older material. You’re always going to look back and be eager for people to hear the newer material, but that’s just another part of the game.
Justice: If we could do certain things over again, I may do some things differently given what I know now in hind sight, but I definitely don’t have any regrets. Everything we’ve been through has either been an awesome experience, or a real valuable learning curve.
Of course, Theme Music is but an appetiser for your impending full-length album. What insight can you share with us about that project?
Kaos: We’ll actually have guests on the album [laughs], but not confirming any as yet. Expect us to branch out a bit more, I might get my sing on. We’ll be really crafting our sound and pushing the envelope, but not in the same way that it’s been done here before. Expect experimentation with sounds, we don’t care about lines of genre and the whole commercial vs underground argument as long is it sounds good!
Justice & Kaos ‘theme music’ ep is out now, for more info visit http://www.justiceandkaos.com
